LA shouldn't exist on these, they are balanced in line with other LA+0 races on Therafim.
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This is the discussion related to the wiki page Planetouched.
Your opinion, not mine. Incidentally that may change in the near future as I work a few things out.
Planetouched on the SRD are LA +1. SRD trumps all. Cept for DM fiat. but that's another bag of kittens entirely.
SRD trumps all. Cept for DM fiat. but that's another bag of kittens entirely.
Throws a bag o' kittens in the well, 'cause what else you gonna do with a bag o' kittens?
I will note Drow normally have a LA but they dont (then again PF drow), at the same time Duergar normally do too (but they also dont). Now why it is that these should have a +1LA, I'm not sure looking at what you get.
Albeit, they have more going for them than the standard races, but not as much as the REP costing ones.
"Ya can hoot, ya can holla-make any noise ya like! But if ya cant chant, oh if ya cant chant, well…ya no cult o' mine!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7movKfyTBII
~Ishkokum Mes Mosof She'res~
"Congratulations, you can link to TV Tropes. This does not mean you have special insight into the storytelling process, much less the author's mind. Stories don't need to fit into neat boxes, you know.
Between Gideon and I we've decided these are level with the level of the base races, La has been adjusted to +0
Panic, Chaos, Fear… My work here is done.
I agree with this, however shouldn't Aasimar be given a -2 to stat somewhere to level it out with the other races? I think it's the only race with +4 without any negatives and no LA. Either that or remove one of the pluses.
2cents
LA shouldn't exist on these, they are balanced in line with other LA+0 races on Therafim.
You
I agree with this, however shouldn't Aasimar be given a -2 to stat somewhere to level it out with the other races?
also you Make up your mind.
Or don't because the call was made by mech ops and lead ops on a race that cost 15 rep to obtain.
Panic, Chaos, Fear… My work here is done.
My mind was made on the presumption that they cost REP to purchase. My 'change of heart' is due to no mention of REP on the page for these races. However if they do still cost REP then ignore my previous comment but please list it somewhere to avoid further confusion : )
…Juxtapose these two races.
| Tiefling | Aasimar |
| +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma. | +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma |
| Medium size. | Medium size. |
| A tiefling’s base land speed is 30 feet. | An aasimar’s base land speed is 30 feet. |
| Darkvision out to 60 feet. | Darkvision: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet. |
| Racial Skills: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks. | Racial Skills: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks. |
| Racial Feats: A tiefling gains feats according to its class levels. | Racial Feats: An aasimar gains feats according to its class levels. |
| Special Attacks: Darkness. (As the spell, 1/day) | Special Attacks: Daylight. (As the spell, 1/day) |
| Special Qualities: Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5. | Special Qualities: Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity |
| Automatic Languages: Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc. | Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Sylvan. |
| Favored Class: Rogue. | Favored Class: Paladin. |
| Level adjustment +0. | Level adjustment +0. |
They seem balanced against one another in every way but one-I never quite understood why Tiefling had two +2's and a -2, while Aasimar didnt have a -2 penalty somewhere.
Not only that Half Fiend is more fiendish than Tiefling, and has a +2 bonus to charisma. I know its favored class is rogue, and the dex helps, but the -2 on Cha seems counteractive to their +2 on Bluffing (Aasimar dont get a -2 on Wis, but instead a +2 which WORKS with their racial +2 on Spot AND Listen checks)
Being a believer in versimilitude, I think the Cha penalty should be dropped on Tiefling, or else a penalty added to Aasimar, but thats simply how I would do it IMC.
Now I KNOW…I know 4E isnt something a lot of people like, but Tieflings in that ed get +2 Dex and +Int, while Deva (Aasimar) get +2Wis and +2 Int IIRC.
"Ya can hoot, ya can holla-make any noise ya like! But if ya cant chant, oh if ya cant chant, well…ya no cult o' mine!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7movKfyTBII
~Ishkokum Mes Mosof She'res~
"Congratulations, you can link to TV Tropes. This does not mean you have special insight into the storytelling process, much less the author's mind. Stories don't need to fit into neat boxes, you know.
quoting 4th ed here will make me want to punch babies. Yours preferably but any infant will do for punching when 4th ed starts leaking it's way into a not 4th ed game.
I was just trying to give an example I think my general point is still valid though.
"Ya can hoot, ya can holla-make any noise ya like! But if ya cant chant, oh if ya cant chant, well…ya no cult o' mine!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7movKfyTBII
~Ishkokum Mes Mosof She'res~
"Congratulations, you can link to TV Tropes. This does not mean you have special insight into the storytelling process, much less the author's mind. Stories don't need to fit into neat boxes, you know.
Skip punching babies and just punch Pale, it'd be more satisfying. They are approved by lead and mech op as they are, as I said, Thank you for your concern, I'll consider your proposal.
Panic, Chaos, Fear… My work here is done.
Sorrowdusk does make a good point with his juxtaposition of the two races. And he's succinct, which impresses me to no end. {note: I am not being sarcastic when I say that}
Nevertheless, as Jennibear has said, this will be taken into consideration. I will rely heavily on her thoughts on the matter, and likely yield to her end decision.
| Orc | Tiefling | Elf | Aasimar |
| +4Str -2Int -2Cha | +2Dex +2Int -2Cha | +2Dex +2Int -2Con | +2Wis +2Cha |
| Medium | |||
| 30' Base Speed | |||
| Darkvision 60' | Darkvision 60' | Low Light Vision | Darkvision 60' |
| +2 Intimidate | +2 Bluff Hide | +2 Spot Listen Search | +2 Spot Listen |
| Greataxe Falchion & "Orc" = Martial | No Feats | Short Bow, Long Bow, Rapier, Longsword & "Elven" = Martial | No Feats |
| No Spell Like | Darkness 1/day | No Spell Like | Daylight 1/day |
| No Saves/Resistance | Resistance 5 (C,E,F) | Immune magical Sleep +2 vs Enchant | Resistance 5 (A,C,E) |
| Light Sensitivity | No Penalty | ||
| Common, Wildlander | Common Infernal/Abyssal | Common Sylvan | Common Celestial |
| Barbarian | Rogue | Wizard | Paladin |
| 0 REP | 15 REP | 0 REP | 15 REP |
As you can see from the above chart. Not all races are created equally.
In fact, if you were to go by the above chart, Orc would be the only BASE race, while Elf and Tiefling would be LA +0 and Aasimar a +1 LA.
That being said… if you really want to complain about the differences between Tiefling and Aasimar, you should be lobbying for ALL base races to be made equal. And instead of Aasimar gaining a -2, Tiefling should be losing it's -2. I rest my case.
"One should make his decisions within the space of seven breaths…With an intense, fresh and undelaying spirit, one will make his judgments within the space of seven breaths. It is a matter of being determined and having the spirit to break right through to the other side." — Hagakure
This may or may not be relevant but I've noticed for quite some time now that WoTC tends to attach a higher value to physical stats than to mental stats. Just an observation.
Oh they do. Which was exactly my point in making the chart in the first place.
It's purely an example as to how comparing tiefling to aasimar as to which should be LA and which should not is an exercise in stupidity.
But then again, at the time of creation of over half the races, charisma was also not the most breakable stat in the game.
In the following order is the best possible stat for making a SAD (Single Ability Dependant) character
Charisma > Wisdom > Intelligence > Dexterity > Constitution > Strength
Now, preventing X - Y stats shifting abilities/feats. Yes Constitution is THE best stat to have in the game (unless you're a pally then its CHA).
as for the rest it's entirely dependent upon class and in some cases specifically build.
Anyhow, the point in the above chart I posted was to illustrate that races are not equal. There is a reason for it, but no chart will ever illustrate those reasons.
"One should make his decisions within the space of seven breaths…With an intense, fresh and undelaying spirit, one will make his judgments within the space of seven breaths. It is a matter of being determined and having the spirit to break right through to the other side." — Hagakure
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page revision: 2, last edited: 14 Apr 2012 19:12
